David Hunt:

Kestral Gaian is a storyteller — a queer storyteller —at a time when queer stories, queer voices, are cast as dangerous, purveyors of a radical ideology that blurs the traditional boundaries of gender identity and sexual expression. And it’s true that this thoughtful, soft-spoken Brit is — in a decidedly understated manner — changing the narrative. Crafting characters, stories, even alternate universes — that are familiar, yet radically different. Where the past and present collide, where life and death are states of mind, where love is love.

Softness, Gaian writes, feels like a form of resistance. Stories should leave a mark, not a scar.

I’m David Hunt

I sat down with Kestral Gaian recently, shortly after the release of their newest book, The Boy From Elsewhere, a young adult novel that combines time travel, alternate realties and an ancient bloodline and includes queer characters and a same-sex romance.

I asked Gaian about the audience they write for.

Kestral Gaian:

In terms of the fiction books that I write, I write for mainly young adult audience, although I write for, I write for young adult and up upwards. I think young adult fiction that is aimed at sort of 13 or 14 plus is actually really at its best when it is also accessible for adults who want a lighter read. The world is such a difficult place to live in right now for everyone. And, you know, sometimes grownups, sometimes the adults want to break from that and to read something a bit more entertaining and a bit, a bit easier to engage with and a bit easier to digest. So I, I suppose in terms of the fiction that I write, it is for teenagers and young adults and adults who are looking for some escapism that is a little bit less heavy duty than reading Tolkien, for example, as much as I love reading Tolkien, there's a time and a place. But I do, I do write other things as well. I write poetry, which has a kind of broad adult audience mostly and do some writing in and around theater that's mostly aimed at adults as well. So, broad set of audiences for the stuff that I do. But I find young adult fiction writing so much more fun because it's an audience that doesn't tolerate being patronized in any way, but it is an audience that is broad and diverse and, and just so fun to rifle.

David Hunt:

Yeah. And I, I have to admit, I'm not a consumer of young adult fiction. And so I didn't know what to expect when I read your books. And then I was sort of flummoxed. I was like, I love this book. What does that say about me? Am I just young at heart? Or is there something universal about, about the writing?

Kestral Gaian:

I think good young adult fiction is, is quite universal. It's, I think young adult just means it's, it's a bit of an odd label, really. It just means accessible fiction. And I don't think you, you have to be young at heart, or I don't think that there has to be any kind of shame in adult readers wanting something that's accessible to read now and then. I think it's, it's such an interesting place we've got ourselves into, in the same way that, you know, poetry scholars are very gatekeepery around, poetry and that who can enjoy it and how they should enjoy it, and those kind of things. We, we've got ourselves into this kind of place in the world where we say, no grownups should read difficult books. Books should, you know, books should be hard to get through. Books should make you think books should, um, you know, you, you should, you should take three months to read a book. And actually, sometimes it's nice to have something that's more accessible and, and there shouldn't be any shame around that at all. It should just be another thing that people can enjoy.

David Hunt:

In a way, I think, literature in school sort of ruin literature for, for a lot of us. If you take a poetry class in high school, you never want to read poetry ever again in your life. And then you go to a poetry reading in a club and you're like, wait, this is different than what I experienced in, in school.

Kestral Gaian:

I agree with that. I studied music and it made me want to never do it professionally because it was just sort of, I loved it, but now whenever I listen to anything, my enjoyment is not ruined so much. But, you know, I find myself analyzing and overanalyzing everything I listen to, um, and that, that I think takes something away from it. and I think it's, I, I studied and, and was taught to kind of go into the technical instead of go into the emotion of a piece.

David Hunt:

And so people listening who haven't read your books, I don't want to leave the impression that the books are, are necessarily, all about fun and adventure. I mean, there's some, there's a lot of, Hidden Lives, for example, there, there some dark spots in there. In both your books that I read, Hidden Lives and The Boy From Elsewhere. How do you weave that complexity into a story so that it's not, so that it's balanced, I guess, is the word I'm looking for?

Kestral Gaian:

I think authenticity is really important to have and really important to a, to a mature audience as well. I think having to suspend disbelief kind of to the nth degree to make a story work doesn't, doesn't really sit well with me. And so adding in complexity and that kind of depth to characters just, just is because that's my experience of dealing with people in real life and in, in the, in the real world. People are messy and complicated and, and as much as there's fun and action and adventure, everyone is, you know, has a side to them that is quiet and has a side to 'em that is pensive and has a side to them that is thinking and churning away in the background. And I think trying to bring that out in the characters to make them as, as rounded as I can in my books, that just naturally then lends itself to, you know, there's the fun, there's the adventure, there's, um, humor in places, but it's real, and people are dealing with things and, you know, nothing really gets resolved quickly in our lives, so it shouldn't get resolved quickly on the page either.

David Hunt:

Yeah. I'm thinking of the teacher in Hidden Lives who's kind of a jerk through, through parts of it, but is also struggling with, with his own issues. So, you know, well done, I guess in terms of authenticity, 'cause we, we all, we all can relate to authority figures that, that are flawed.

Kestral Gaian:

I think it's also really difficult when we are not getting what we need or what we want from people to think that might be because they've got something going on in their lives rather than because it's something we are doing. And I, I think it's really important to write characters like that who are flawed, who are multilayered because no, villain in a story or no annoying character in a story, it's annoying in isolation. Those things come from somewhere.

David Hunt:

And the family dynamics seem real to me in, in both of the books of yours that I read. In The Boy From Elsewhere, the mom’s a great mom, but it's not all sweetness and light. I mean, the, there there's, there's been some grief in that family as well. And, and, um, talk about, talk about those characters and developing those characters.

Kestral Gaian:

I think family, for me is, is a really important thing to talk about because every, you know, every person you meet, there's some influence by their family, whether directly or indirectly, you know, no matter how much contact we have with them or don't have with them, our families are part of our histories. They're part of what makes us who we are in, in many ways, they give us our values and, and our, our traumas in, in many ways. Some of our very deep seated, um, insecurities come from family interactions. And, um, that I think is, is a great thing to explore in character development. Having family members to interact with who are in themselves complex and flawed, just adds this layer of depth, I think, to being able to, to tell the audience, to tell the reader who a character is.

David Hunt:

So your new book, The Boy From Elsewhere, when people ask you, that haven't read it, ask you about it, what do you, how do you describe that book in a, in a sort of the elevator speech, I guess, fashion.

Kestral Gaian:

 So it's, it's very genre bending, which I have been very intentional about. So people say, what's your book about? I say, well, it's a sci-fi fantasy romance story sort of. A boy wakes up on a beach with no idea how he got there and meets, someone else. And they decide to help them and end up on this adventure, kind of gathering friends and family around them and end up saving the world. And it's all as, it's as random and as kind of, um, unusual in its development as that. Like, we learn what's going on as the characters do, and we see kind of glimpses into their pasts of various different characters through a few sort of diary entries and things like that, that, that throw back. But ultimately, the book is about coming together, celebrating differences, helping each other, lifting each other up, and then becoming greater than the sum of our parts in the service of something huge.

David Hunt:

And so you, you craft the story by telling it from different points of view, from different times even. Time is sort of is, um, it's very fluid.

Kestral Gaian:

Yes. And so this book is the first book in a series as well. So there are many things in the first book that I have deliberately included and left dangling, because that's a much bigger thread in, in book two or book three as, as a three part series. And so, um, it's been really fun actually writing a book, knowing that it's part of a series, because that's giving me the opportunity to introduce concepts but not have to resolve that until later. Um, which, which I think has proven interesting in the feedback I've been getting from readers. I've had, more than a dozen messages pop into various inboxes online from people that have just said, how dare you end on a cliffhanger? I, I wanna know <laugh>, I want a resolution to all these things.Which is of course coming. But, um, I like the fact that I haven't had to tie up every loose end by the end of book one.

David Hunt:

Is that a, is that difficult to keep track of as you're writing this? You must have, you must have it diagrammed at some point.

Kestral Gaian:

I have so many notes. so I have, because obviously this is a series of books. I have a, a series bible that is a, a currently like 40 page document that is all the kind of, um, the law, the continuity, the things to keep track of timelines, all of that kind of thing, maps even, as well, which are all useful for things coming up in, in the next two books in the series. But I do frequently find myself having to consult, um, timeline diagrams and kind of character journey arc diagrams and things that I have because they are all dealing with their own things and also how their own things are impacting each other in the group, and then how that kind of has a, an impact on their, their journey in the kind of bigger picture in, in the, the bigger scheme of things. And it, yeah, I, I mean, it's so much fun to basically kind of create these characters and give them a kind of basic personality and set of rules and then kind of throw these situations at them and see, okay, well how would this character react to that? And how does this character react to that character reacting to that. And it's, it's like a giant game of the Sims basically. It's fantastic.

David Hunt:

So you can do anything because you're the author. Do you impose some constraints on yourself or are you like William Burroughs? Anything goes.

Kestral Gaian:

Well? A little bit of both. I think. I, I try and I try not to force a character to do something that doesn't feel right for the character. Um, but at the same time, people can surprise you. And I want my characters to be able to surprise the audience and to surprise me as well. You know, the characters do have a bit of a life of their own. 0nce you've, once you've created them and they start down these journeys, sometimes they do take you in unexpected places. And I try and I try and sit with that, and I try and let that happen. I I want to try and be, as anything goes about it as I can be, but every now and then, something will come up. And I think actually if I'm, you know, if we follow that path to its logical conclusion, I think that character ends up in a place that I, that isn't natural for them, and that isn't true to kind of how they were written. And I, I think it's really important to kind of, to have that check and balance in there.

David Hunt:

Sort of like a game of chess. I mean, you need to sort of figure out where the, where the pieces are going. And if you pull one off the board, it, can it come back? I don't know.

Kestral Gaian:

Yeah. Is having to be kind of five or six moves ahead at any given time as well to make sure that you're not about to checkmate yourself into an uncomfortable ending for a character.

David Hunt:

Now, is this, is this considered the, I I hear people talk about the many worlds genre of sort of fantasy writing? Is that what this is?

Kestral Gaian:

I think in part, yes. It's, I think a lot of the kind of many worlds stories or, or kind of multiverse stories or however you want to say it, focus on that as the, the overriding kind of core of the story in this story. And certainly in this series, it's very much secondary. It's, um, yes, there are different worlds in the stories, but that's not the, that's not the core of the story. The core of the story is essentially, um, how it, it, it's essentially how people can become either good or less good depending on what they're doing. It's basically like, how, how do we live in this world without becoming evil essentially is the crux of the story. Um, the fact that there are multiple worlds is more a device than it is a, a main point of the story. So I think it, it certainly sits in that genre, but it, it's not, it's not a kind of full fit in that genre, which is, is why often, um, people have described my work as kind of as bending genres. And I'm, I'm okay with that. I think, you know, as a, as a person, I don't love to put myself into little boxes, and so my stories don't fit neatly into boxes either.

David Hunt:

Some of your young characters seem wise beyond their years, and I think that in a lot of ways contradicts the prevailing media narrative about the Generation Z as being sort of clueless or being overly sheltered. Um, why did you choose to, to, to make your, your, your young characters sort of resilient and wise? I mean, was that a conscious choice or is that something that's reflected in your experiences with young people?

Kestral Gaian:

Yeah, I mean, it, they're there because they're based largely on real people. Um, the particularly Ellie in, in this, most recent book, um, who is 13 and just so resilient and strong minded and, and clever, is based on a young person that I know, as the, the daughter of, of someone that I've worked with. And, you know, that these people absolutely exist in, in their kind of, strong willed glory. And I think it's really important to show that, that there are people like that in the world, and that young people aren't all growing up in this kind of, um, kind of content infused nightmare, that some people are continuing to just grow up and be brilliant and unique in themselves. And that, that does echo a lot of, of my experience growing up as well. I think, I am, I'm autistic and growing up in that world of, um, you know, being in a, an autistic LGBTQ plus young person at a time when none of those things were really talked about, um, was an interesting experience. And I have seen the confidence of, of, of newer generations growing up without some of the same restraints. And I think actually writing those characters is really important, and writing characters that are role models that I would've needed when I was that age as well, is really important.

David Hunt:

Yeah. You, you write on your website about, growing up in a, in a home where there wasn't a lot of money, um, and growing up as a queer kid, you write about, wanting, feeling a sense of difference and desiring a deep, having a deep desire for connection with others. and that certainly informs your writing. How would it not?

Kestral Gaian:

Absolutely. I think ultimately, you know, writers bring so much of themselves to any story as do readers. I mean, the second a story is out there in the world, it is read through the lens of the reader. So every different person that reads something that I've written will come to it with a different set of ex expectations and different set of experiences in life. And, you know, I can only hope that the experiences that I have had that bleed through into the writing, vibe well with the experiences that other people have had as they start to read the writing.

David Hunt:

You’re listening to Tell Me David — Queer Stories Past and Present. I’m David Hunt, continuing my conversation with storyteller Kestral Gaian. 

David Hunt:

Yeah. And it, it occurs to me that being a queer kid today, perhaps easier than when you and I were younger, but still is fraught, these are difficult times for, especially for trans kids and non-binary kids. Um, what's your experience in, in talking to young people as you go around promoting your book and, and other work that you do with, young people? What what's your, what do you hear from them about this time?

Kestral Gaian:

So, I certainly would never use the word easier to describe, how it is for young queer people growing up now. Different, certainly. Um, I have done a lot of youth work and, continue to go out and do, voluntary work in the, in the youth sector. And I think it is such an interesting time for LGBTQ plus young people because there is such a stigma in the world still. Um, and so many of the same, things that were being said about, um, you know, lesbian and gay people in the nineties as being said about trans people in the media, now you have this added, um, social media frenzy that makes everything so much more visible, so much louder. Um, and there is an almost sort of deafening amount of dissent towards people just being who they are that any queer young people has to deal with on a, on a daily basis, essentially. And, and many are faced with a choice of, do I interact with the world in a in the same way that my peers do or do I have to shut off from some of those things so that I can protect myself? And that's such a sad choice that people have to make, you know, essentially limiting their own engagement in, in the, the world as it is in order to not, um, to not face kind of harassment and discrimination online.

But I think, you know, there are still escapes for people. They look different. There are youth groups, there are, um, fantastic places for people to go. There are great online communities as well. and I think it's, you know, that that level of visibility is better than it was, or certainly a lot different to how it was, when I was growing up. And, you know, I, I felt like I was the only queer person in the world. Now, queer oung people know that they're not the only queer person in the world, but unfortunately they get visibility of all of that hate and, and vitriol alongside it.

David Hunt:

So, so I'm guessing you grew up in a time before the internet. You're a millennial, I guess.

Kestral Gaian:

Yes. So when I was growing up, there was no, internet. There was, a law in place in the UK that forbade schools and, and other organizations from even acknowledging the existence of queer people. So, um, it was a very silencing time. There was no research, there were no resources, there was no ability to just go. And, you know, you couldn't Google anything. You couldn't go to the library and look it up. You couldn't ask a teacher about it because they weren't allowed to, to answer the questions. So, um, it was a very different time. Now you have knowledge, but you also have knowledge of, of all the hate, then you didn't have any knowledge at all.

David Hunt:

And how did you, how did you navigate that?

Kestral Gaian:

It certainly, it was difficult. I, um, had relatively liberal sort of open-minded parents. So while I grew up in a small town, they were still very, um, very vocal in their support of people and their differences. Um, we were getting kind of little bits and pieces on television of kind of positive representation here and there, although a lot of it was still very negative in the media. But, so I, you know, I knew that people like me existed. I just thought I wasn't, I thought I was the only one in my town. I thought, I was the only one in my, in my county, let alone anything else. Um, and it was just very isolating, you know, there was no one to talk to, there was nothing to do. you know, eventually we got dial up internet when I was about 16 or 17, and that was a game changer because I was able to go online and, and look in forums and, and on websites to see that there were people out there like me, which was, a really incredible thing. Um, and just so, so freeing to realize that there was life beyond my little town and, and my little view of things, um, which was really, really cool. And then, you know, eventually, as I was getting towards leaving school, I was sort of nearly 18 found out that, you know, there was someone else who was queer in, in my school, in my, you know, so it was suddenly I wasn't feeling quite so alone. But all of that, I mean, was so, so drawn out compared to how it is now.

David Hunt:

But was there a time when you thought you wouldn't make it?

Kestral Gaian:

Certainly in, in, in many ways. Um, thinking about, kind of early years of, of queer identity, thinking about, you know, what do I do? Do I leave this tiny town that I grew up in? All those kind of things. And then thinking about how, how do I deal with feelings around sexuality and also gender identity and things like that. Um, there were many times I couldn't see, it was less than, I didn't think I was making more than, I just couldn't, I couldn't see a future. I couldn't see how I would get to anywhere that I wanted to be. Um, and, you know, I had dreams and I had no, no idea. I had no, didn't even conceive a path towards them, um, which was, you know, looking back on that, it's quite a difficult thing to have gone through because now, you know, I, I'm very able to look at kind of goals and dreams that I have, I think. Right. That's how I get there. Brilliant. It's, it's difficult to think that there was a time that that's not the case.

David Hunt:

Yeah. you wrote about, you edited, I guess, a book on Section 28, which you alluded to, which was, can, can you tell me about that? Tell me about that law and about, about, um, your efforts to document those times.

Kestral Gaian:

So, Section 28 was a law in the UK from 1988 through to, 2003. And, um, it was, it was essentially a, don't say gay law, it, it forbade the promotion of, um, homosexuality or similar, similar things as a, as a supposed lifestyle. Um, it, it is a very insidious wording, but essentially it meant that any agency responsible for dealing with young people, whether it was a school or your doctor's office or anything like that, couldn't, couldn't even acknowledge that homosexuality or LBGTQ plus identities were, were a thing. Um, you know, there were threats of teachers losing jobs, schools being shut down, you know, doctors being fined, all of that kind of thing. So it just, it, it instantly silenced people, the people that, um, that we needed in our lives. I mean, I remember asking, asking my science teacher once about it, and she, I asked her because it felt like she would be a safe person to ask, and I think she would've been, is her answer. She looked at me with very sad eyes, and she said to me, I'm so sorry. I can't answer this question. I'll lose my job. And it wasn't even that, it wasn't a difficult question. It was just like, you know, so something around that, you know, how many gay people are there, or something like that. And she just couldn't, she couldn't say. And I think growing up, the, the difficult thing about Section 28 is that because nobody talked about it, nobody knew who they were. Nobody had that kind of, oh, yeah, here's the language I can use to define me. But we also didn't know why it was so difficult. So it wasn't until I was an adult and I learned what Section 28 was, and I realized there were other people that were going through exactly the same role I had because of the silencing effect of Section 28. And so the book 28 was really a way of being able to bring people together who have this shared experience of, of this silencing without even knowing it was happening, to kind of talk about their perspective of it and, and tell those stories. Um, so it very keen book had people from a mix of ages, a mix of backgrounds, um, but all who were impacted by Section 28.

David Hunt:

 Can you tell me a story, of one of those that, that sort of sticks with you from the book?

Kestral Gaian:

One of the most poignant, stories from a book was actually of a, of a gay teacher at the time. Um, so John Campbell, he, contributes to the book stories of being a gay teacher in the nineties. And, everything was fine until he was more honest and open about who he was at work. And suddenly, um, because of Section 28, all anti-discrimination laws were out the window. And he was able to, you know, he was told that any bad behavior was his own fault. And, you know, if there was a student that was misbehaving, it was probably down to him. He got put on, you know, academic probation and things more often than he ever should have been, all because they, you know, were looking for ways to try and fire him and get rid of him because, you know, they didn't think that parents would wanna be taught, you know, would want their kids to be taught by a gay teacher and these kind of things.

And so it wasn't just impacting the young people. It was impacting, you know, everyone involved in, in education and healthcare at the time, which is, is such a shame. And one of the other stories, from, from, Owen Jones was about, um, the fact that there were a whole group of people who were at school just after the repeal of Section 28. And of course, the law changed, but there wasn't new guidance for schools on how to do anything better. They just repealed the law. And so nothing really changed for a long time in schools. Everyone was still operating as if the law was still there because they hadn't been given any guidance of what had changed and what was new and how they could move forward. So it was a real, yeah, a really long shadow, as I describe it to that particular piece of legislation.

David Hunt:

It's the idea of silencing voices. As a storyteller, that must really be offensive. The idea that you're not allowed to talk.

Kestral Gaian:

It's one of the things that's driven me to spend so much of my life telling stories, um, and really why it became more of a, more of a vocation, more of a calling than it did a, a hobby. Um, I think when you, when you realize that you've been silenced and you didn't even realize you were being silenced, the the desire to kind of counter that, to go against that, to be noisy in a way, is really strong. And, you know, for me, a way of doing that is to tell stories, to tell authentic stories, to tell stories that, that I wouldn't have been able to tell otherwise. And, you know, people often ask me, you know, why do all of your books have, um, have queer characters in them? And it's, well, because actually, you know, my life is full of queer characters, brilliant queer characters, but so often and so many bottom points in history, these people would've been silenced to the extent that they wouldn't have appeared in a story, or their authors wouldn't have been able to tell that story. So I was, so I'm gonna tell them that this is my way of rebelling in a way.

David Hunt:

And then the, I also wanted to ask you about Tubelines, which I, I haven't read unfortunately. But, um, that's poetry about the London Underground, which just sounds like an kind of odd, but also interesting project.

Kestral Gaian:

Well, one of my favorite pastimes and I, and I think probably many writers are the same, is people watching. I absolutely love just sitting in a, in a space and, you know, watching the people interact with each other and, and be by themselves and how they take up space. And, um, while I was living in London, I, I kind of got into this habit of sitting on the, on the London Underground for longer than I needed to. I would use it to get to places, but I'd quite often give myself a bit more time, and I'd go on a couple of extra stops and double back and just sort of see the different things that occurred on the tube. And I started making notes about that because it was really fascinating to me. And those notes kind of evolved into poetry. I've always used poetry as a way of kind of understanding the world.

That's part of my sort of autistic processing of things, is that poetry helps me to try and make sense of the world around me. And so I suddenly realized that I had this whole, I mean, I, I had hundreds. They, we managed to whittle them down to 50 for a very, a book of poems, but I just had hundreds of poems and, you know, missives and little whips and, and, and quirky things about what I was seeing when I was sat on the London Underground. And so it, it became this collection of, of, um, of lines from the tube or Tubelines all about, um, just the people and the experiences of the tube. I mean, some of them are about my experience on the London Underground. So I've written a couple, there were a couple of poems in there about train stations and things like that, but a lot of them are just about, here's this person wearing this shirt, what does that mean? Or here are these people that are just looking at each other funny, what does that mean? And it's was just a way of me kind of processing and understanding the world and ended up growing into this collection of poems.

David Hunt:

Do, do you have one there accessible that you could read? Perhaps a short one?

Kestral Gaian:

So this is a poem called All the Things I Have Done, which I wrote whilst sat on a train station platform, just sort of musing about life. I'm perched here on the platform watching people wait, they're all waiting for something while I sit and contemplate. There's coffee in my paper cup and a buzzing in my brain as I struggle to find meaning between the northbound trains. Drawing out my notepads, I write out what I feel. Is anything original? Is any of this real? You see, I realize all the things I've done, many others have done too. Some with more precision and some with a better view. I've said things I thought clever than I heard them in a song. I've tried to write what's honest. Then I found, I sang along. I've danced like I was flying, then seen it on TV. I've cried beneath the cherry trees, like every poet's plea. Nothing is original, but maybe that's okay. I'm just a spark inside a storm that just started yesterday. We copy, shape and echo. We mimic, blend and build, with stories made from others, recycled, stitched, refilled. I've loved in ways I thought were mine, but Romeo's been there. I've grieved in quiet corners without them in the air. I told a joke, then heard it told in a better way with flare, and still it made me laugh again. Like it was always there. All the things I've done, the borrowed and the blue, are part of something older that still feels brave and new. Because in this great mosaic of life, of rhythm, love and rhyme. We are not here to be the first, we're just here to be this time. People flood the platform as rush hour takes shape. I was feeling uneasy. Now my thoughts start to escape. I finish off my coffee and let out a heavy sigh. Who cares if I'm original? At least I tried.

David Hunt:

So do you, do you feel part of this great queer movement going back into history? Is that part of what that's about?

Kestral Gaian:

Oh, that's a, I think if I said yes to that question, I'd probably feel like I was a bit of a narcissist. So I, I think <laugh>, I certainly feel part of an incredible community of queer people and queer creatives who put things out into the world. And, and hopefully those things resonate with people, whether now or in, you know, 10 or 50 or a hundred years. I mean, I would, I would love the people to still be reading my things in a hundred years time. Um, and I certainly feel not so much connected, but indebted to and incredibly grateful for all of the incredible queer creatives that have gone before me. I think there is a huge, huge legacy of, um, of LGBTQ plus creativity. And you, you look back through the years of, of pioneering trailblazers in all walks of, of life and in all kind of fields of creativity, and all of them have given me something. They've all given me an ability to, um, to, to speak the way that I speak, to do the things that I do. Um, they've given me courage and confidence, and they've given the world so much kind of rich, incredible heritage that I'm incredibly grateful for.

David Hunt:

And you are, in many ways, your own creation, even even your name, I, I take it, is, something that you created yourself. Do you feel, does, does that empower you in, in some way that the, the idea of, of defining yourself for yourself in this crazy world?

Kestral Gaian:

I think there's a lot of power in being able to say, this is who I am, this is who I want to be, and this is the, the person I'm going to be and the way that I'm going to live my life. And that's what I've tried to do. I think I acknowledge the fact that people change and grow and evolve, you know, every, every day, let alone every year. Um, and I don't ever want to, to kind of be the same person, for the rest of my life, but being able to define who I am and what I do and say, this is the life I want to have and strive towards, that has been really powerful. And I, you know, I think particularly as that, I think back to that, that queer kid in the small town, not even knowing if there are other people in the world like them and, and, um, not knowing if they would ever not being able to see that they would ever be able to fulfill any of their dreams, their aspirations, their hopes. It is a powerful act in the face of that start in life to be able to say, I am going to do these things. I am the person that I want to be, and this is what I'm striving towards.

David Hunt:

Yeah, I covered the AIDS epidemic for public radio station in California in the early 1980s. And and almost everyone that I interviewed back then is gone. But I often think of those folks and what they would think of you and me today, 45 years later, and what we have made of ourselves and the world. That gives me some hope that, we're, we're living the life that, in a lot of ways they didn't get to

Kestral Gaian:

That particular crisis meant there were so many lives cut short, so many songs that didn't get written. So many, books that didn't get, created, so many lives that didn't get lived. And I think, choosing every time, a queer person now chooses to live, chooses to fulfill their dreams, chooses to, to go out and make the life that they can dream of that honors those, those people that didn't get to do that for themselves,

David Hunt:

I think too, they would, they would be, glad to see that there's still a spark of a fight left in the community that, you know, they, they really sort of pioneered well, going all the way back into history. Being quueer almost always meant a fight. And I think in a lot of ways, young people today are, are carrying that forward and, and, and living that today.

Kestral Gaian:

I agree. And I think just the shared kind of the shared community celebration is important as well. One of my, one of my favorite quotes from the, height of the AIDS crisis was, someone who said, we burn our friends in the morning, we protest in the afternoon, and we dance in the night. Um, and it's the dance that that pulls us together and binds us and galvanizes us for the fight ahead. And I think that's really important to remember because there is such a fight and such a struggle for, particularly for trans people at the moment. And, you know, in, in many ways, LGBTQ plus laws and legislations are, are going backwards in parts of the world. And actually, yes, it's really important for us to keep fighting that, but it is really important for us to keep celebrating each other and lifting each other up and making sure that we are never, um, putting everything we have at all times into a fight, and that we take the time to feel joy as well.

David Hunt:

You wrote a piece of music called, birds and Humans, another, another creative outlet, I guess. and that was a joyful piece, I thought. tell me about doing that.

Kestral Gaian:

Thank you. I, so Birds and Humans started out as a poem and, I have always been quite musical. I, I've studied music and, I sang at a lot of choirs when I was, younger. And the opportunity to work with a good friend of mine on turning one of my poems into a piece of music was too good to pass up. So, um, it was just over a decade ago now, created this, this choral piece of music and the poem, Birds and Humans, was actually a lot about my, um, my name and the name that I had chosen. The fact that the Kestral is a, is a bird, and Gaian is from Gaia, which is very much kind of, of the earth. And so you've got these, these two worlds that kind of collide in my name, and actually they, they collide all around us all the time as well. Um, you know, we, we are not the only inhabitants of this planet. And actually, you know, there are many different planes that people exist on in this planet, both above and and below as well as on the, on the ground we're on. And, the, the music itself was very, powerful and, and full of kind of hope as well as reflection about this idea that, you know, we are not the only life form on this planet, and we are all on this planet kind of living together and learning together and growing together. And that gives me a lot of hope and, and feels very freeing to, to think about in a way as well.

David Hunt:

What’s next for you? 

Kestral Gaian:

So, I'm currently, working on the next two books in the series, the Reality Quake series. Book one was the Boy From Elsewhere that's just come out. But obviously as that book has just come out, I'm also traveling around at the moment, going to lots of events and, and doing, writing workshops and, and book readings and things, not just in kind of shops, but also I'm going to a lot of lgbtq plus and youth groups and talking about, getting into writing as a, as a queer author and sharing the, the book and the story and the characters, with them as well, which I think is, is a really important thing to be doing. Um, so in and around that the, the creativity is already in full swing for the next two books in the series, um, kind of as full-time as I can be creating those right now. And that's, that's really exciting.

David Hunt:

So, in this digital age, there's still space for a writer.

Kestral Gaian:

Absolutely. I think that now more than ever, writers being who they are and being out in the world and talking to people and creating stories is important because I have spoken out a lot about my thoughts on AI and the kind of the joy that it takes from people being able to, you know, experience the joy of learning, the joy of creating, all of those kind of things. But I think ultimately there are a lot of people that don't necessarily realize they are consuming a lot of AI generated content. So the more writers can get out there and share their stories and share the work that goes into kind of building these characters that people grow to love, the more people can spot the fact that that's not something that AI can do as well. And, that encourages them that to a, get into writing and b, to really appreciate the art craft of writing and the, the work that goes into telling those kind of stories.

David Hunt:

 And then, and then how can people, how can people find you online?

Kestral Gaian:

So, I have some social media. I'm on Instagram, Kes.tr.al, where you find quite a lot of pictures of food, because I quite enjoy food. I can also be found on, on Blue Sky and on Mastodon using same handles, um, but mostly, these days via my websites. So kestr.al where I semi-regularly update a newsletter and there's various bits of information around how to find me all through there.

David Hunt:

Terrific. Is there anything else you’d like to talk about before we wrap it up?

Kestral Gaian:

Just to say a huge thank you. I think it is so important, like I said, to keep talking about writing and about storytelling and every opportunity to do so is wonderful and podcasts I think are a fantastic way for people to digest this stuff so I’m really pleased to have been here. So thanks very much for having me on.

David Hunt:

I’d like to thank Kestral Gaian for talking with me for this program. Check out their new book, The Boy From Elsewhere, a young adult queer adventure that speaks to the young adult in all of us. For Tell Me, David, I’m David Hunt.