David Hunt:

There was a time when the foreign policy of the United States, under the direction of the U.S. Department of State, advanced democracy around the world and supported the human rights of marginalized people — even people oppressed because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression.

The State Department even had — for a time — a senior diplomat, a special envoy to advance LGBTQI+ human rights. Under the second Trump administration — not surprisingly — that position is now vacant, as the United States retreats from its position of global leadership in diplomacy and human rights.

I’m David Hunt. The last U.S. Special Envoy to Advance the Human Rights of LGBTQI+ Persons was Jessica Stern, who was appointed to the post by President Joe Biden in September 2021. She stepped down Jan. 20, 2025, the day Donald Trump took the presidential oath.

Stern is a longtime human rights activist who served, for a decade, as executive director of Outright International, a nonprofit organization that works to combat violence and discrimination against LGBTQ people.

Today, she serves as a Senior Human Rights and U.S. Foreign Policy Fellow at the Carr-Ryan Center for Human Rights at the Harvard Kennedy School. 

I sat down with Stern to discuss her tenure at the State Department and her advice for fellow activists. But first, I noted that we were meeting close to the anniversary of a historic event. On Aug. 24, 2015 —  almost exactly 10 years ago — the UN Security Council, for the first time ever held a meeting that focused on LGBTQ human rights. Stern was there and spoke to that gathering of diplomats. I asked her to tell me about that moment in history.

Jessica Stern:

Ten years ago was a really harrowing time if you were doing work in solidarity with LGBTQI people in Iraq and Syria. ISIS had taken control of vast parts of those countries and not only were LGBTQI people unsafe, everybody was unsafe: women and girls, Yazidis, anyone who didn't conform to an extremist notion of gender conformity and traditional ideals about how, how to behave in the world.

I was the executive director of Outright International. And we did a lot of advocacy at the United Nations because as a global LGBTQI rights organization, it was very clear to us that LGBTQI people in many parts of the world couldn't receive justice within national borders. And the UN, then as now, is an incredible useful place for LGBTQI activists to turn to help get attention on the world stage to human rights abuse they were experiencing. And at the time, we had a joint partnership with an Iraqi women's rights organization that was doing really heroic work in support of LGBTQI people and US-based women's human rights organization that worked globally called Madre. And because of that partnership, unfortunately, when ISIS took control of the country, we were receiving reports often on a daily basis of the ways that ISIS was targeting men they perceived to be gay. And so, at that moment, we reached out to the US Mission to the United Nations, and we said, there's never been a UN Security Council briefing on anything related to LGBTQI issues.

And they said the Security Council has already heard about ISIS targeting women and girls, targeting Yazidi, undermining human rights across Iraq and Syria. We would be happy to work on this event, but it won't be an official event at the Security Council. We can't get all of the permanent members to agree to an event like this. But what we can do is what's known as an arria, which is basically a side event that influences the official proceedings of the Security Council. And the US reached out to the government of Chile, and Chile agreed to co-sponsor the event. And so, thanks to Chile and the United States, we broke the lavender ceiling, and we held the first ever LGBTQI event on the margins of the UN Security Council. And it was one of the most emotional UN meetings I'd ever been a part of.

We had a Syrian gay man who testified anonymously about what he had experienced at the hands of ISIS. We had a gay Iraqi man who very bravely told his story and gave his name, and I was brought in as the human rights expert to sort of provide the overview. And it was a unique story because ISIS was so deliberate in advertising its murders of men they perceived to be gay. And many of your listeners will probably remember that ISIS would take to social media and show photographs of their agents pushing men they accused of being gay off of the tops of buildings. And the consequence of this was that they told us they were responsible for murder. And David, there was something so harrowing about that, that those images cut across religion and culture and nation, and people everywhere were horrified. And so, from that tragedy, we actually found common ground with a lot of unlikely suspects. And in the end, because of the depravity of ISIS, we actually had no formal opposition from any government. Not a single UN member state protested that arria, which showed that there actually is humanity to be found in this world.

David Hunt:

And if there's ever a definition of speaking truth to power, it's gotta be this meeting where you're addressing representatives of, I understand it wasn't just Security Council members, but there were members from 190 countries in this meeting. Did you feel the weight of that? Did you feel the, the weight of having to be diplomatic? How did you approach that?

Jessica Stern:

It's funny that you should ask me about that meeting. I was so incredibly worried about everything leading into that day. I was really worried about the Iraqi gay man and the Syrian gay man, and whether there would be repercussions for them. I was worried about whether they would be re-traumatized from telling their story. And I was absolutely terrified that any of us who were allies would misstep in this crucible of violence and give someone an excuse to justify attacking more LGBTQI people in Iraq or Syria. And actually, I won't say that my fears were for naught, David, but I will say that because the stakes were so high and the situation was so blatantly egregious, it marked a really important turning point in the UN's history because the UN Security Council is the single most powerful mechanism of the United Nations.

They have the ability to authorize war. What they say and do impacts every UN member state and every person in the world. And it is a place of enormous disagreement 10 years ago and today. And so up until then to have never had any recognition by the most powerful UN body that LGBTQI people exist and may be disproportionately and specifically targeted for violence in times of war and conflict and national crisis was a political message in and of itself. And the message up until then was, you do not matter. And although that arria was a parallel session, it didn't happen in the official proceedings of the Security Council, everybody knew that it happened. And that meeting was the start of a, not only incremental recognition by the Security Council, but also a sort of dawning engagement with the UN Security Council by LGBTQI people and LGBTQI activists. So, I was scared that day. I remember when I went to read my remarks, David, my voice was actually shaking. I was so nervous. But we came through it and it really gave birth to a new era at the United Nations.

David Hunt:

Fast forward five, five and a half years or so. You have a line on your LinkedIn bio. It says, I led US foreign policy related to LGBTQI + rights and represented the US government globally. That sentence is doing a lot of heavy lifting. How do you approach a job that big?

Jessica Stern:

It was not easy for me to decide to go into government because I'd always been a human rights activist. And I've been a survivor of discrimination in my life. And when you have been a human rights activist, or when you have experienced discrimination firsthand, you know that government isn't always there for you. And specifically, when you focus on LGBTQI issues, governments have often been a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. And so, when I was invited to entertain the idea of becoming the special envoy for LGBTQI rights, it was a really hard decision. I asked myself, did I want to take on the affiliation with US foreign policy, which as we know, has not always been respectful of human rights and national sovereignty of other countries. But in the end, it was not a very hard decision to make because LGBTQI people around the world are radically under-resourced in terms of political, economic and sociocultural support.

And we need allies, we need powerful allies. At that time, there had only been two special envoys for LGBTQI+ rights anywhere in the world. The first was my predecessor, Randy Berry, who was a career diplomat who served in that capacity for a year and a half during President Obama's administration. And the second was a member of the House of Lords named Nick Herbert, who became the special envoy for LGBT rights in the UK. And neither of them had ever been a human rights specialist or based within LGBTQI rights movements. And so at that point, we had a brand new tool in diplomacy, and we had the potential to really shape it, shape its existence, shape its impact, ensure that it acted with integrity and frankly, try to show that there was proof of concept so that the US government would see this shouldn't be a partisan position. This should be bipartisan and exist no matter who sits in the White House. And if we could succeed, then maybe we would also encourage other governments to do so. So, with a little bit of hemming and hawing, with a lot of support from my partner who agreed to move to Washington, DC for four years, with a lot of love from my extraordinary community at Outright International where I'd been executive director for a decade, I packed my bags and took the job and off to Washington I went.

David Hunt:

You’re listening to This Way Out: The International LGBTQ Radio Magazine. I’m David Hunt, continuing my conversation with activist and educator Jessica Stern, the U.S. Special Envoy for LGBTQ+ human rights in the Biden administration. I asked Stern where she thought U.S. foreign policy had done the most to advance LGBTQ human rights during her tenure at the State Department.

Jessica Stern:

I think I'd focus on three core areas. One is that in my time in the State Department, we placed an enormous focus on activating US foreign policy so that all aspects from national security to economic development to public health had some relationship to LGBTQI+ rights. And that is absolutely essential because if LGBTQ I issues are just seen as a niche concern, just one of those nice to dos rather than must dos, then we never get enough resources. And so one of the things I would always say is, please don't just invite me to your pride party. Don't just bake rainbow cupcakes, do US foreign policy and include and prioritize the experiences of LGBTQI+ people. And we made a lot of progress with that. You know, I can remember one time there was a proposed sodomy law making its way through a particular country's legislative process.

And I found out that the US Secretary of State, Secretary Blinken, was going to be meeting with that country's foreign minister. And I worked every connection that I had, and I eventually ended up in that meeting sitting at the right hand of the Secretary of State, so that even if I did nothing other than say my title, their government knew that the US was watching and the US was concerned. And in the end, I didn't actually need to say anything because Secretary Blinken delivered the LGBTQI+ talking points for me, for us, for everyone. And so that's the first category of success, actually bringing an LGBTQI consciousness to US bilateral and multilateral priorities. 

The second area I would say is working in the global arena with other governments that are supportive of LGBTQI+ rights. David, there just aren't a lot of governments that are putting political and financial energy into the human rights of LGBTQI people. And so, when Uganda introduced its anti-homosexuality act, when Hungary banned pride, when Russia announced that the so-called international LGBTQI movement was a terrorist force, there weren't that many governments that metaphorically raised their hands and said this is a problem. But because the US has so much global influence, and because our State Department and USAID when it existed — may it rest in peace — just had so much capacity that other governments didn't, we were able to help anchor responsible engagement by governments that cared about LGBTQI people around the world. And the consequence was more funding for LGBTQI organizations working on the front lines globally. The consequence was when LGBTQI people were arbitrarily arrested or thrown in jail, more governments responded and spoke to those governments and said, this is not okay. We are raising this as a matter of formal concern. And when anti-LGBTQI legislation surfaced, or rights affirming legislation became a possibility, more governments threw their weight against the bad and for the good. And that has huge consequences. 

And then I think the third and final piece that really felt like a huge success is more LGBTQI people around the world in situations of danger felt like there was someone they could call in times of crisis. And that really meant the most to me. So whether it was when LGBTQI Ukrainians were denied food at an emergency refugee site, after they'd crossed the border into Poland after fleeing their country after the Russian invasion, they called us and we quickly mobilized because we were one of the donors to that refugee site, and we could make sure that no discrimination was happening on our watch. Whether it was a gay man who'd been released after being taken into Qatari government custody on allegations that he had engaged in non-traditional and inappropriate behavior, we were able to engage and we were able to try to use our access to Qatari officials to speak about his safety and the need for a pattern of support. It just took so many forms. But I'll end by saying this: you know, after I left government, I met with one of the smartest, most talented lawyers that I know who works in East Africa, and she said, I don't love that the US has such a big impact on the world. In fact, I'd be the first to critique it. But I want to tell you that when you were in your role, if something bad happened, I knew that there was someone I could call and someone would pick up the phone.

And right now, I really ask myself, when something bad happens, who do they call? And is there anyone who will pick up the phone?

David Hunt:

Yeah. It's a new world with the Trump administration. So, speaking of critique, give me your critique of the Trump administration's approach to LGBTQI rights around the world.

Jessica Stern:

I don't know how I would summarize it other than to say you know, the Trump administration is rolling back decades of progress for LGBTQI Americans in our daily lives here at home, and is bringing almost a, a Machiavellian approach to attacking LGBTQI equality around the world. And I don't enjoy saying that. What I would much rather say to you is that support for LGBTQI issues have continued under this administration. But unfortunately, I think that they're weaponizing LGBTQI issues to distract from issues that most Americans care about, like the price of eggs at the grocery store, the climate crisis, free and fair elections and we're the casualty.

David Hunt:

And a lot of LGBTQ people and organizations are in despair over the political environment in the U.S. Do you have a message for them of how to meet the moment?

Jessica Stern:

I think the first thing to remember is that none of the rights or recognition that we've enjoyed in our lives have come easily or just been handed to us. Every, every family that loves their trans kid, every grandma who says your husband is welcome at my dinner table, every school that has a GSA and every state that has a non-discrimination ordinance, they went through a process of change. Certainly, when I was born, and probably when you were born, recognition from our families and recognition from governments almost seemed unimaginable. And so, I would start by remembering our community that we have been here before and we have come through it, but we have come through it by not staying silent. The way we come through moments like this is by protesting, by taking to the streets, by writing letters to the editor, by holding our elected officials accountable, by electing different public officials if the ones we have now don't serve us, by making donations to organizations that serve our community, by inventing new strategies for visibility when rainbow crosswalks get paved over in black tar. Like we know how to rise up. And the number one thing I would say to all of our listeners is, if you are in a moment of despair, the way to get through this moment of despair is to be loud and to mobilize so that we make this moment as short as possible and we come through it stronger together.

David Hunt:

You are a senior fellow at the Carr-Ryan Center at the Harvard Kennedy School. And I know you've been there a short period of time, but I wondered if you would share with us what that work looks like in your life.

Jessica Stern:

As you said, I've just joined the Car Ryan Center at the Kennedy School. So, I'm still figuring it out, to be perfectly honest. I think it really has a few components. One is research and writing. I think it's really important that especially given my work as a special envoy that I engage in an act of memory and preservation. We did amazing work when we had a special envoy for LGBTQI rights, and it wasn't just me, it was everyone that worked in my office and everyone that so generously worked with us across the State Department. So, the first thing is an act of memory to document what we did so that those stories won't be erased and so that they won't be misrepresented by others who want to distort the dignity of what we achieved.

The second piece is an act of analysis. So, we've now had six special envoys for LGBTQI+ rights around the world. So, we've had special envoys in the US, the UK, Italy, Argentina, and France. And Spain's newly announced special envoy should be starting this month. So that's not a lot of information to go on. You know, we've now had special envoys from five or six countries, and we have like 200 countries in the world. So, we have a little bit of progress yet to achieve, but we have enough information to know what works and what doesn't. So, the project of analysis is to actually document the ways to set these positions up for success. 

And then I'd say the third piece is to really incubate future special envoys for LGBTQI+ rights. I'm contacted by activists and governments all the time that want to be the next country to have their own special envoy for LGBTQI+ rights, and they don't have to start from scratch. So, one of the things that I really want to do is set them up for success by sharing some of the lessons learned. Because we need these positions. They're beacons of hope and galvanizing forces within foreign policy. So, we need them to be as effective as possible.

David Hunt:

I saw on LinkedIn you said you had started teaching your transnational LGBTQI+ rights class at Columbia, sorry, Harvard. You had a quote in there from a student that I, that really hit home. The student said it, the class, feels like a secret weapon for making sense of the world. And it occurred to me, those of us who have been around the movement a while, that it's important to educate the next generation about where we come from to inform where we're going. I find it interesting that you're, you know, not just researching, but you're also involved with teaching. Do you want to talk about your role as an educator?

Jessica Stern:

Oh, the class was so great. I always teach in the spring term. This is my first time teaching in the fall term, and my students, they're all, they're all significantly younger than I am, at least, you know, they're probably mostly in their twenties, but you know, it's grad school so most of them have also had professional experience. And something that I do on the first day of this class is you know, I asked the students to remember the first words they heard to describe lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and intersex people. And because this is a seminar, it’s small enough that I invited the students to come up to the board, and there are boards that surround the classroom, and to write in their native languages the words that they heard as children to describe that thing that they would become. And then once they made a list of all the words they could remember, I asked them to write next to it a plus if it had a positive meaning, a minus if it was pejorative, an equal if it was neutral or a question mark if they weren't sure.

And we went around the room, and the room is now surrounded by words in English and Spanish and Mandarin and Cantonese, and all of these beautiful languages represented. And everybody explained the meaning of the words. And this woman from China said, there's this word, and it sort of translates to transgender woman from Thailand. And then a woman, a person from Taiwan said, yeah, that might be sort of how it's translated, but the real meaning is more poetic, but harsh. And I asked, well, what is it? And she said, well, it, it, it's a derogatory way of referring to transgender women. And I said, it's safe here. You can say it. We know you don't mean it as an insult. And she said, the way you translate it is as fairy monster, fairy monster, which is just like, so heart-wrenching. And then we looked around the room and we found only one plus sign next to all of the words, because even though these kids are 20 years, 30 years younger than I am, they've still grown up in an era where you don't want to be a member of the LGBTQI community. And if you are, you somehow find your way to grace, but that grace isn't given to you from the start.

The past 50 years has been a time of remarkable progress in the United States. And in reaction to that progress, I feel very strongly that, A, we have an obligation and an opportunity to defend that progress. And in this moment when it feels like that progress is really under attack, we have to protect it so that we don't go back into the closet. B, I feel that because of the progress that we've achieved, the fact that I can live with my spouse safely, that we can walk down the streets without fear of arbitrary arrest, we also have an obligation as Americans to give back to the rest of the world. And to show up for LGBTQI people that never can take their safety for granted.

David Hunt:

It occurred to me that diplomacy is a slow process. It is not quick action. You mentioned that you'd come from an activist, advocate background and gotten into diplomacy. Did you make peace with, with the fact that diplomacy is not a quick fix and can I make, you know, can we, collectively, make peace with that?

Jessica Stern:

I don't know, my friend. I think it's fast and slow all at once. I mean, on the one hand, I will tell you that going from, you know, a 30 person staff at Outright International to an 80,000 person staff at the State Department was so challenging. And when they talk about bureaucracy, it's real. There's bureaucracy in government, but there's also bureaucracy because you're not a lean and nimble organization, and there are checks and balances for many reasons, including because there are checks and balances to make sure you are compliant with the law and using taxpayer resources responsibly. So, it's slow moving, and you have to decide if you can make peace with that and work within that structure. Thankfully, there are public servants in the world who are willing to do that, but it is really hard, which is maybe why I'm so happy now to be, to have co-founded and be one of the principals leading the Alliance for Diplomacy and Justice, which has eight people working for it, not 80,000.

But I will say in terms of diplomacy, I also saw diplomacy work really fast and really well. There were, there was a gay man in a central Asian country who'd been arrested under that country's sodomy law. And local community members contacted the embassy and contacted my team, and we found out about it, and we marched into the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Justice, and we said, this is inhumane and unjustified. And that young man was released from jail, and if he hadn't been released from jail, he would've been criminally charged, and he could have lost years of his life to prison. So, diplomacy can be very slow and intractable and exhausting, but it can also be a force for good in emergency human rights situations, which is why I believe so strongly that we need to have human rights as a centerpiece of US foreign policy.

David Hunt:

As our conversation came to a close, I asked Stern if she believes the U.S. will someday return to a position of centering human rights in foreign policy. 

Jessica Stern:

Look, I wouldn't have spent the past almost 30 years doing this work if I weren't an optimist. So even now I'm an optimist. And I think when you're in the LGBTQI movement, you have a little bit of optimism baked in. I mean, literally our symbol is the rainbow. It's the intersection of the rain and the sun, right? We know how to come through a cloudy day.

David Hunt:

I’d like to thank Jessica Stern for talking with me for this program. Stern is a Senior Human Rights and U.S. Foreign Policy Fellow at the Carr-Ryan Center at Harvard. She served in the Biden administration as the U.S. Special Envoy Advancing the Human Rights of LGBTQI+ Persons. For This Way Out, I’m David Hunt.