In the closing days of World War II, Sgt. Fred Hirsekorn found himself on the receiving end of a tongue-lashing by Gen. George S. Patton. The famously quick-tempered American general ordered Hirsekorn and his crew to remove the heavy sandbags and extra armor they had attached to the outside of their M4 Sherman tank — a vehicle notoriously vulnerable to the Germans’ armor-piercing panzerfaust grenades.

Speed, not safety, was Patton’s priority as he led the Army’s fast but lightly armored tanks across Europe to liberate the Continent from the Nazis. 

Hirsekorn’s granddaughter — a colonel in the United States Space Force — probably wishes she had some of that discarded armor from World War II. But its value would be little more than symbolic. The attacks she faces today aren’t on the battlefield. They’re coming from inside the Pentagon, where she works to keep the U.S. combat-ready.

But don’t call it friendly fire. The attacks are not accidental. Col. Bree Fram — the proud granddaughter of a decorated Army tank commander — is a proud transgender servicemember. In fact, the highest ranking active duty transgender person serving in the United States military.

To the command-in-chief, Donald Trump, Fram — like all transgender servicemembers — is the enemy.

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I’m David Hunt. On March 11, I sat down with Col. Fram to discuss President Trump’s executive order banning transgender people from serving in the military. Unless the order is delayed or struck down by a federal judge, the military will begin purging its ranks of transgender servicemembers this week at the direction of the Department of Defense. In fact, Fram says, the purge has already begun, ahead of schedule.

Bree Fram 07:47
We don't know exactly what's going to happen, but we're already seeing the impact. We are seeing people placed on administrative leave. We are seeing people have punitive action taken against them, losing spots at school, being pulled out of prestigious programs, people being return from deployment. You know, the policy says you're incapable of deploying, and that's part of the problem. And then they pull people who are actively deployed, accomplishing their mission and send them home … People are also taking the voluntary separation action. So we are losing highly qualified people already because of the policy.

In his Feb. 27 executive order, Trump said being transgender “conflicts with a soldier’s commitment to an honorable, truthful, and disciplined lifestyle …” and “… is not consistent with the humility and selflessness required of a service member.”
The Trump administration is using both carrots and sticks to encourage trans servicemembers to voluntarily quit the military. Those who leave willingly will receive significantly more severance pay and won’t have to repay any bonuses they received — even if they have a remaining service obligation.

Servicemembers who stay and fight for their rights face a hostile — even degrading — work environment. They’ll be forced to follow the standards of dress and grooming that align with the gender they were assigned at birth. That extends even to the bathroom and shower facilities they’ll be required to use and how they’ll be addressed by subordinates. 

Bree Fram ~04:00
And so that's a huge disincentive because no one wants to experience the dehumanization that comes with something like a forced detransition, which is what's going to be attempted on people based on the way the policy is written.

Bree Fram (04:52):
I served under male standards for more than 15 years prior to, to being able to, to transition. And it does not matter how many years you've transitioned or for trans people that have joined after transitioning. The government's position is that any history of it will force you to revert to previous standards. So there really is no way out right now, as the policy is written.

Why, you may ask, would anyone go through the indignity of remaining in an organization that clearly does not value or respect them? Well, it turns out, the United States military is not just any organization. And servicemembers — especially transgender servicemembers — are not just government employees.

Bree Fram (09:21):
I plan on making my case that transgender people are capable competent and serve with distinction until the very last day I possibly can in wearing my nation's uniform. And that's incredibly important to me. I am a senior officer I, I look around at the spirit of transgender service members and am so impressed by their courage and their bravery. How could I do anything less than try and stand with them and with the thousands of others who are making that same choice? Because we treat every single day as a gift. Every day is a gift in that we get to make more relationships with the people around us. We get to meet someone new who may never have met a trans person or a trans person in uniform before, and shatter their stereotypes about who we are. And the longer we serve, the more opportunities we have to do that. And there's also the fact that we all took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. We have sworn to protect and defend this country, and we actually care. So we want to accomplish the mission we've been given and not let any of our teammates around us down, because if we depart, all of a sudden there's a hole in our unit that others have to fill and have to work even harder just to accomplish what the unit was doing while we were in it.

Bree Fram (11:42):
There is absolutely a sense of responsibility and a duty to do not only what I can, but also to share the stories of others and to take care of others in any way, way that I possibly can. And that means working with people. That means picking up and answering emails and phone calls, not just from transgender service members, but also from their commanders and their, their peers, their leaders who call up and say, I've got someone in my unit. How can I help take care of them? And those are some of the most meaningful phone calls or, and opportunities I have to interact with others. And those are the people I am really impressed by that decide to reach out and say, how can I help my transgender troop?

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You’re listening to This Way Out: The International LGBTQ Radio Magazine. I’m David Hunt. The status of transgender servicemembers in the United States military has been what Col. Bree Fram calls “a wild rollercoaster.” As the nation’s highest-ranking active duty trans officer, she’s experienced many of the twists and turns.

Bree Fram (15:00):
We have had less than a decade of open service for trans people. There were a handful of people that bravely came out ahead of that in the attempt to change the policies within the Department of Defense. And I absolutely applaud their bravery and their courage to make that happen … and some people thought that when don't ask, don't tell was repealed in 2011, that trans people could serve openly. But it wasn't the case. It was gonna be another five years until we got that, which I think was truly amazing that it was only five years, because trans rights in this country have historically been 10 or 20 years behind gay rights. 

It was the last day of June, 2016, Pride month in the United States, when Defense Secretary Ash Carter announced the news: the ban on transgender military service was over.  For Bree Fram, it was a defining moment in a journey that had started decades earlier.

Bree Fram (20:00):
I grew up and I knew from a very early age that there was something different about myself. I was Wonder Woman for Halloween when I was three and four years old, right alongside my younger sister. But I also, as I grew, understood what society's perception of trans people was that this is something to be ashamed of. This is something to hide … And it really wasn't until my thirties that I got enough confidence in myself and enough self understanding to say, no, this isn't something I like to do. This is who I am. But then I ran up against the barrier of, well, the military still says you can't serve openly. And so I did have to continue hiding who I was even though I had accepted the fact that I was trans. And, and that's really who I was. So by the time 2016 rolled around and the Secretary of Defense made the announcement that trans people could serve openly I was ready to go to come out to the world and I had a post ready to go on Facebook and an email to my colleagues.

Bree Fram (21:57):
So as soon as he finished talking, I hesitated. It took me a minute or two to, to gather the courage to hit post, to hit send. And then I lost it. I ran away. I found the gym buried underneath the Pentagon, and I hopped on the elliptical machine. And I say, I went nowhere faster than I'd ever gone anywhere in my life, because the nervous energy of wondering how is life going to be different now, was killing me. But eventually I had to go back to the desk. I sat down and one by one, my colleagues walked over to me, shook my hand, and said, it's an honor to serve with you. And I was near tears because it was my honor to serve with them.

But, the rollercoaster ride was just beginning. A year later, in July 2017, the new president, Donald Trump, reinstated the ban with a tweet — a post on the social media platform Twitter. A month later, Defense Secretary James Mattis announced that currently serving transgender troops would be allowed to remain in the military, pending further study. While the Pentagon studied the issue, the federal courts blocked Trump’s trans military ban until 2019. In April of that year, the ban was reinstated but not rigorously enforced. President Joe Biden reversed the ban just five days after taking office in January 2021. And that’s how things stood until Trump returned to the White House in January of this year. The better part of a decade serving proudly and openly in the military has given Fram a clearer view of what it means to be member of America’s armed forces.

Bree Fram (18:56):
What do we expect in the military? It's that if we look to our left, we look to our right, if bad things happen, that person has my back. And so the way you prove that, in most cases, is be competent … And if you meet the standard, you're part of the team, people are gonna respect you, and they're gonna work with you. 

Bree Fram ~39:00
People being able to transition in the military is such an amazing opportunity, not only for that individual to be their best self, but also for their unit, to then take advantage of those relationships and those capabilities that come with someone being their best self and really exhibiting that growth mindset that is so critical to all of us to say, I can be better tomorrow than I am today.

Fram disputes the notion — asserted by Trump and the Department of Defense — that serving openly and authentically impedes military excellence and readiness. In fact, Trump’s efforts to disparage transgender servicemembers flies in the face of studies conducted by both the Pentagon and the Rand Corporation; studies that found allowing transgender troops to serve in the military had “no significant impact on unit cohesion or operational readiness.”

Bree Fram (12:53):
Trans people serve in every rank, every career field, every service, doing incredible things, both here at home and deployed all around the world. And in so many cases, despite the arguments that are levied against us, that we don't meet standards, not only do we meet standards, we absolutely exceed the standards because in so many cases, we're trying so hard to prove that we belong. 
So you have people like Navy Commander Emily Shilling who's been a test pilot and flown multiple combat aircraft, off aircraft carriers doing incredible things for the Navy, or someone like Chief Petty Officer Ryan Goodell, who's a Navy Signals analyst who is the senior enlisted leader for a group on the joint staff at the Pentagon. You have people like Major Kara Corcoran who has led an armored battalion deployed overseas. So people doing amazing things in every circumstance in some of the most challenging places for transgender people to exist. And they prove day in and day out that we belong and provide that example for others to look up to. Along the way, they're also developing the next generation of leaders, because we have senior people like those leading and accomplishing the mission at the same time.

Fram’s own experience in the military counters the doom and gloom scenario promoted by the Trump administration. Her coming out hardly brought the Pentagon to a standstill. In fact, it took about as long as a coffee break.

Bree Fram (23:09):
I transitioned while I was in a command position when, on the day I came back to my office for the first time, presenting authentically my team threw a party in my office. We had cookies. It was absolutely fantastic. And my relationships with people deepened. I learned more about leadership and how to connect with people, and it truly made me a better leader, more able to help others with their problems, because they all of a sudden saw me as human, and they thought I might actually be interested in their problems.

Ironically, if anything threatens to negatively impact unit cohesion, it’s the ban itself. 

Bree Fram (46:03):
If transgender people are pushed out, people will look around in the military and see the holes that were there, and were once filled by thousands of highly capable, highly competent transgender service members. So not only will they see the hole in their unit that is already there, they also see the person that is missing, who they have served with, potentially for years, if not longer, and know as a friend, as a colleague. And yes, they are very likely to face the same questions of, is this the right military for me? And in an all volunteer force, retention is really important. Or if we look at who are we recruiting with? 30% of generation Z adults, you know, the 18 to 25-year-old cohort that is critical for the military, that is our prime recruiting age population, 30% of them identify as members of the L-G-B-T-Q community. Are they gonna look upon the military and say, this is the right opportunity for me. So whatever happens, the ripples of this are going to affect our national security for years, if not decades to come.

In addition to the impacts on morale, retention and recruitment, there’s a cost that even Donald Trump should be able to recognize — the financial downside to expelling transgender servicemembers.

Bree Fram (29:34):
That is a huge reason I think this country should be concerned, because there have been hundreds of millions of dollars if not more invested in our transgender service members. We do not have skills that you can just replace by walking someone in off the street. Not only do we hold advanced degrees, or as I mentioned, someone like Commander Shilling who has 1700 hours flying our nation's most advanced aircraft. That doesn't happen right away. And we are gonna fight and win wars in the future with brain power and with advanced skills that take years and years to develop. And if those brains happen to be in transgender bodies, you should want them serving in our military.

Pushing Fram and other trans servicemembers out of the military has another consequence. It breaks an oath, their oath to support and defend the Constitution, to honor what Lincoln called, “The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone.”
It’s a call Fram heard — and responded to — at a grim time in the nation’s history.

Bree Fram (47:40):
I joined the military because of September 11th. I graduated in 2001 and had no intention whatsoever of joining the military despite an amazing legacy of service from both my grandfathers. And I started looking for jobs applied to places at nasa defense contractors like Boeing and Lockheed, because space was my passion. I had a degree in aerospace engineering. But then we got attacked and I wanted to give back. I wanted to be part of something larger than myself. I wanted to defend the freedoms that men like my grandfathers had passed to my generation and make sure they were still there for future generations. It was one of those moments that changed my life in a heartbeat. And for those listeners that are old enough to remember that time period, you saw just American flags appeared everywhere in the week after the attack.

Bree Fram (48:42):
And several days after I was driving from my house to my girlfriend, who is now my wife, who lives several hours away. And there was a flag hanging from a highway overpass. It's a good thing I had done that drive enough to be do it on autopilot, because I broke down in tears and spent an hour barely able to see. But by the time I made it into her apartment, I just said, I'm gonna join the Air Force. And it took me a while to get in, but it was the start of, of an incredible journey and such amazing opportunities that I have had to do incredible things, meet amazing people and, and serve my country in ways I never expected to. It's just been an amazing ride for the vast majority of my time.

Fram takes courage and inspiration from the servicemembers with whom she serves — and from a grandfather who loved and supported her. 

Fram 50:40
I was his only grandchild to go into the military and he was so proud that every time I'd get promoted, he'd just get this big wide-eyed smile and be like, wow, a captain. Oh, a major, that's incredible. A lieutenant colonel. No way. And unfortunately, he, he passed a day or two after the trans ban went, in effect, the first time in 2019. And I was at his bedside. And that happened, and the, the last words he spoke were to me because he had got to see who I was who the real me was by that point. And he told me to keep doing what I'm doing. And it touches me to this day that someone like him could see me, could understand, could get it, and to continue to push me to new heights.

There’s one other thing you should know about Fram’s grandfather, Fred Hirsekorn. He was an immigrant, a German Jew, driven from his home by the hate and intolerance of an authoritarian regime. On March 11, 1936 Hirsekorn and his parents and grandmother, boarded a ship in Cherbourg, France, bound for a new life in the New World. The journey he began that day — 89 years ago — isn’t nearly over. It’s carried on, by his granddaughter, as she walks — for now — the hallways of the inner rings of the Pentagon, at the heart of America’s armed forces.

I’d like to thank Col. Bree Fram for sharing her story for this program. You can learn more about her podcast, Forged in Fire, at breefram.com. For This Way Out, I’m David Hunt.